MICHEL MARTIN, HOST:
As we just heard, the Utah event at which Charlie Kirk was killed had been set to kick off a national college tour. Here he is speaking with the president's daughter-in-law, Lara Trump, on Fox News earlier this year, about what the meetups are like.
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CHARLIE KIRK: We try to bring the excitement and the patriotism of a Trump rally to college campuses of all places. So we've got a couple thousand students waiting for us, and we're going to have a fun time.
MARTIN: Kirk had the view that college campuses were not places where freedom of speech thrived, and this is something he was trying to change and shape.
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KIRK: Well, free speech is our birthright as Americans. When you have free speech, we're going to get closer to the truth, closer to the best way to govern, closer to the best polity for the country. And here in college campuses, they're not places of free speech. They are islands of totalitarianism.
MARTIN: Let's hear more about him now from someone who also works to get conservatives motivated and activated. Matt Schlapp chairs the American Conservative Union, which organizes the Conservative Political Action Conference, or CPAC. He's also a former White House political director in the administration of George W. Bush, and he's with us now. Mr. Schlapp, this has to be a difficult day. So thank you so much for joining us, despite that.
MATT SCHLAPP: Yeah, thanks for covering an important and very tragic moment.
MARTIN: So Charlie Kirk was obviously a gifted man. What would you say his gifts were?
SCHLAPP: Well, you know, it's interesting. He went to college campuses, but he didn't go to college. He started an organization at a really young age. I remember the first time he came to CPAC. It was probably over 10 years ago, and he was so young and had about 25 kids with him - 40 kids in red T-shirts. And, you know, in his mind, he was intent on forming a new group and forming a movement, and he did just that and did it with a lot of grace and got the attention of so many people.
MARTIN: What was he good at?
SCHLAPP: He made a huge difference.
MARTIN: Yeah. What was he good at? You know, sometimes, you know, when people who were established in any field, they kind of looked at the newcomers thinking like, what are you doing? So what do you think - how did he make his mark? What did you notice about him that gave you a clue that he would be somebody important?
SCHLAPP: Well, he was entrepreneurial, so he was going to do something his own way. He didn't just have to follow what someone else did. He was starting his own group, which I just love people like that. It's so interesting when someone says, look, I'm going to do this improbable thing. And then he did something that was very interesting - he inspired the young and the old. He inspired the young, you know, people, you know, my kids' age, who would follow him on social media and, you know, they would follow these moments on campus.
And then he really got the attention of kind of the older crew who supported his organization because they were really worried about what they saw as trends with young people away from the traditional ideas and values that they wanted them to have that they thought they were passing on, and that were somehow, you know, they felt like their grandkids were being overtaken by this woke ideology that seemed to grip America for a period of time, but thankfully is waning.
MARTIN: So as we just heard, he was speaking at an event on a university campus. You go to public events. You were a White House aide, right? And people who work in the White House, as I did in the first Bush administration, as a reporter, are very mindful of security. But when - you've left that now. You're a public figure, but you're not part of that kind of security apparatus. Do you ever feel unsafe in public events?
SCHLAPP: Well, I'll just say this. You know, I was on the White House on this terrible day, which we're going to remember today - 9/11.
MARTIN: Yeah, 9/11. Yeah, you sure were. Yeah.
SCHLAPP: Mercy and I, my wife, ran out of the White House in fear, and then people don't know it, but we ran out of the White House the second day, too, on the 12th because we thought there was another attack. You know, so there was, like, a, you know, a little bit of a fright throughout the staff. But the other thing we realized that day is the security is not there for all of us who are at the White House. The security is there for one man and the succession of the presidency. So even when you're in the middle of what you think would be the safest place, you know, there's a fragility to everything that's involved in the human condition. And I will say this. I don't talk much about what the threats you face when you're in these types of positions because I think, you know, there's no sense instilling panic in people, but we're in a very bad and dark place in our country when it comes to violence. And I think we're just seeing a rapidity of really shocking events.
And, you know, what I would encourage everyone to do is fight like heck in politics, you know, push, push, push for what you want. But at the end of the day, you've got to - you've - there's got to remain some respect for those that you're fighting and an understanding that they're doing what they think is right, too. And the other thing that needs to happen is, quite frankly, people in the media - we need to stop villainizing people. You know, people have ideas, and, you know, might not like them. There's a lot of people whose ideas I think are abhorrent. But, you know, would I help them change their tire if they were on the side of the road? Hope I would.
MARTIN: But, you know, on Newsmax, yesterday, you called on leaders of the left to stop normalizing hatred and violence. Are you also calling on leaders of the right to do the same?
SCHLAPP: Everyone should stop doing that, but the only difference is in the age of Trump is that, you know, there has been a outrageous commentary that goes on and isn't stopped...
MARTIN: Two months ago...
SCHLAPP: ...By people...
MARTIN: ...Two elected Democratic state officials and their spouses were shot in Minnesota by a man who had a hit list of 45 elected Democrats he intended to kill. Former House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's husband attacked in his home, Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro's official residence set on fire. This would seem...
SCHLAPP: Yeah, these were...
MARTIN: ...To be an equal opportunity problem, right?
SCHLAPP: This is - yeah. Well, I'm not sure it's equal, but I think there were examples on both sides that are repugnant. But I just want to - look, I want to chastise you a little bit here. Someone who's very close to my family and to the conservative movement was assassinated yesterday. We haven't seen really anything like this, somebody who's not even in elected office. I don't think this is the right moment for you to say to me that I am not sufficiently concerned about violence that happens from anyone. I think this is a moment to reflect on the life of a young man who made a big difference. And a lot of people are mourning it.
MARTIN: Yes.
SCHLAPP: And it is the wrong time for you to start assigning blame and to say I should have better commentary.
MARTIN: Oh, forgive me, but didn't you surface that issue, and am I not...
SCHLAPP: Ma'am.
MARTIN: ...Listening to you?
SCHLAPP: I can understand why you're getting defunded. This is outrageous.
MARTIN: I'm sorry that you feel that way.
SCHLAPP: This young man deserves some thoughtful appreciation this morning.
MARTIN: And we...
SCHLAPP: He's the father of two children.
MARTIN: And we certainly are giving him that.
SCHLAPP: And you're turning this into just (ph)...
MARTIN: No, I think we're certainly giving him the attention he deserves.
And this is NPR News.
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